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  #1  
Old 07-29-2007, 07:29 AM
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The Document template has URL as it's "primary attribute". As I understand it, the main purpose of the "primary attribute" is to determine what UR try's to displayed in the Item Text pane. So, upon selection of an item of type Document, Ultra Recall's primary concern is to look at the URL and try to render that object in the Item Text pane. I think, for example, that you need to use an item of type Document to list the files in a .zip file within the Item Text pane. I could be wrong here and will be happily corrected.

I think that overall the help file and tutorial documentation with UR is very good. However, there is a bit of a black hole with regards to some key concepts. The sort of information that would confuse the hell out of you when you first read it. But that you would soak up and appreciate the finer points of what it is trying to communicate when you re-read it after using UR for a little while. You never know, maybe I'll have a go at writing something along that lines in the next couple of months...

Quote:
...it deserves a far wider audience...
YES!
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  #2  
Old 07-29-2007, 11:55 PM
ashwken ashwken is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by zargron
So, upon selection of an item of type Document, Ultra Recall's primary concern is to look at the URL and try to render that object in the Item Text pane. I think, for example, that you need to use an item of type Document to list the files in a .zip file within the Item Text pane. I could be wrong here and will be happily corrected.
Not wanting to nit-pick...

The Item Detail Pane is text (rtf) for all Item Types (see default Templates) except Search and Document, the Item Detail Pane is the embedded browser for Document (data file).

See Tools | Options | Broswer - for the file extensions that will be rendered by the embedded browser, it is here that you can add file extensions (like MS Office extensions) to be rendered.

zargron:
If you add the .zip extension to this list, the contents of the zipfile will be shown (rendered) in the detail pane (as a file list).

Also see Tools | Options | Documents - I believe that both the MIME viewer and the Image viewer are running as modules (?) of the embedded browser.

Quote:
Originally posted by Stephen
As a complete aside and off subject, the one aspect I found most confusing with the interface was the Documents template.
The introduction of Forms allows for a nice attribute-header for the detail pane of a Document Item.

From the Templates folder Insert a Document Template, then assign a Form to this new Document template. Then assign this new Document template to be the Default Child Template for a Folder. Now any data files that are sent to this Folder, will derive from the Default Child Template.

If the file extension of these data files are included in Tools | Options | Broswer , or these data files are MIME or Image, they will be rendered below the Form in the Detail Pane.

Unfortunately, at time of Import (Copy-Store, Link, Move, drag-drop), the only way to populate some attributes in the Form is thru use of the Windows File Properties function. (Granted, MIME data will be available if the appropiate atrributes are placed on the Form.)

I've often wondered if there would be user interest/benefit in UR being able to recognize the internal tags that are present in some types of files - image, mp3...
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  #3  
Old 07-30-2007, 01:21 AM
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Well well well...

Thanks for that Ashwken. It hadn't crossed my mind to associate a form with a document based template. That works very nicely. Me like UR - feels like I'm on a big long treasure hunt with lots and lots of prizes!
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2007, 06:08 AM
StephenUK StephenUK is online now
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Yes, the program has amazing depth and grows on you the more you use it. But maybe that Documents template is a tad difficult to comprehend? These are not easy concepts for a beginner and definatey demand a strong cup of coffee. It would be interesting to poll the average IQ of those using UR... For all my law, economics and business qualifications, I still find it takes a bit of getting used to!
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2007, 12:29 PM
janrif janrif is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by StephenUK [snip]
As a complete aside and off subject, the one aspect I found most confusing with the interface was the Documents template. I automatically assumed that to create a document I should use it and yet I found I either CREATED items using text, task, folder etc, or IMPORTED items as Word docs, Excel docs and pdf. As such, the documents template made little sense to me. That is a small matter, but these type of issues do make the program rather inaccessible and in truth it deserves a far wider audience.[/snip] [/B]
StephenUK, going backwards, I agree URp deserves a wider audience. However, I don't know how wide an audience it already has. Having said that, I also agree that the document template is a bit confusing.

IMO, part of it has to do w the User Guide which is complete but not really helpful for a non-technically oriented person (like me, for instance). Altho all the information is there, what it lacks is simple things like:In order to do this task, go to main menu, click x, select y, push <ENTER> key. (See image) etc.

Anyway, it appears to me that most work in URp is done w text, text forms. html, i.e. outside the document template per se but the template has it's uses.

For example, here's one use.

I created a document form with fields that I use for GTD like Action, Category, Priority & some other fields. When I import some document type materials it is saved in the db in this document form so it's more convenient for me to integrate into my task & reminder lists, etc.

While this may sound like I'm clever, I'm not. The genesis came from a question i posted to kinook who responded by suggesting that I create an import document template. I have found this to be quite helpful.

There are probably other uses for document templates but my imagination is limited. I'd love to hear other ideas about how to use the document template.
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2007, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by janrif
IMO, part of it has to do w the User Guide which is complete but not really helpful for a non-technically oriented person (like me, for instance). Altho all the information is there, what it lacks is simple things like:In order to do this task, go to main menu, click x, select y, push <ENTER> key. (See image) etc.
I agree. I've got a pretty strong technical background, so the User Guide was actually a draw card for me embracing UR. I enjoyed having to slow down from my normal rate of reading to carefully digest each new term and concept least I miss out anything important. It takes a lot of time to put together user documentation. For more sales - yes Kinook should perhaps put together a really basic user guide. Deliberately leaving the heavy stuff out. For keeping us lot happy - spend the time on development. What do you do hey...?

Regards the document template - I haven't used it much janrif so I really can't help you. I've derived my own templates from other core templates, but the focus of my UR usage is handled quite nicely without having to employ the document template. When I've got more time to spare or if the need arises then I'll go on a nice little treasure hunt...
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  #7  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:35 PM
StephenUK StephenUK is online now
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I think a simpler step by step guide would be useful. I would like to see the product more widely sold because that way it is more likely to stay in business. I was lucky to get a 12 year run with InfoSelect and I hope to do the same with UR!
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  #8  
Old 07-31-2007, 04:23 PM
janrif janrif is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ashwken
[snip] The introduction of Forms allows for a nice attribute-header for the detail pane of a Document Item.

From the Templates folder Insert a Document Template, then assign a Form to this new Document template. Then assign this new Document template to be the Default Child Template for a Folder. Now any data files that are sent to this Folder, will derive from the Default Child Template. [/snip]
This is slightly different than the way I use it.

I don't assign it to a particular folder. Any non txt data drops into my document form so it 'lines' up w other items no matter what folder it's stored in.

Maybe I make more use of custom forms. This helps me add standard criteria for GTD or other project oriented work.

What you're suggested has made me think that there may be a better way to organize my items. I'll have to consider the possibilities. So thanks for that.

URp is definitely a Easter Egg hunt.
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  #9  
Old 08-01-2007, 02:07 AM
ashwken ashwken is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by StephenUK
As a complete aside and off subject, the one aspect I found most confusing with the interface was the Documents template. I automatically assumed that to create a document I should use it and yet I found I either CREATED items using text, task, folder etc, or IMPORTED items as Word docs, Excel docs and pdf. As such, the documents template made little sense to me.
Plunging ahead with this totally Off-Topic tangent....

After struggling with getting MS Office files into UR as Templates, and with some help from Kinook Support, here's what works for me.

In MS Word create the desired document you want to use as a Template in UR and save it as a .doc. You might want to save it to a specfic folder, just to keep things organized.

In UR see Tools | Options | Broswer - you may need to add .doc to the list of extensions to display in the internal browser.

See also Tools | Options | Documents - you may need to add .doc to the list of extensions to Open Stored Documents Writable. Also, Propmt before Updating should be unchecked (default ?).

See also Tools | Options | Import - Store Contents when Importing, this setting effects everything you send to UR unless you specifically chose to send via Copy (Store), Link, or Move.

Set focus to the UR Template Folder, right-click and Import Files, navigate/select the desired .doc to Import, a Document Type Item will be created which contains the Word document. You now have a Word .doc Template.

This method works if you have Tools | Options | Import - Store Contents when Importing selected. Otherwise, you'll need to right-click drag-drop from Windows Exploer to the UR Template Folder, this will reveal the pop-up menu, choose Copy (Store) for the drag-drop action.

You need to Store the file in UR so that the derived Items are independent from the Template - so that edits to the derived Item are not reflected back in the Template. If you simply Link create the Word file in the Templates Folder, edits to the derived Item will be reflected back to the Template Item.

Something to bear in mind, after editing in the derived template be sure to use the save function provided by the host program in the Detail Pane (in this case Word). If you move focus away from the Detail Pane (before saving) you will be prompted by UR to save your work.

Something that I'm not quite sure of:

Since you are Storing the Imported file in UR (in the Templates Folder) I don't think that you need to retain the file path in the URL Attribute.

On the one hand I can see that this might be useful if you want to update (synchronize) the file template if you make changes to the original source file, but at the same time this URL Atrribute will be present in all derived Items of the Template. If you distribute the database to others you may not want them to synchronize any of the derived Items.

On the other hand, if you delete the URL Atrribute from the Template Item, then later make changes to the original source, then delete the template and re-import, it's going to lead to problems if this template is the Default Child for any Items.

Hope this helps.
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  #10  
Old 08-01-2007, 03:15 AM
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zargron zargron is online now
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So, let me get this right...

Let's say I had a blank form I regularly use called "Incident Report 786" that is stored as a Word document. I import it into UR as you instructed and create a template called "Form 786".

Does that mean when I create a new item based on template "Form 786", the Item Details pane contains my blank "Incident Report" with MS word as my editor?
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  #11  
Old 08-01-2007, 08:16 AM
ashwken ashwken is offline
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Re: So, let me get this right...

Quote:
Originally posted by zargron
...I import it into UR as you instructed and create a template called "Form 786".

Does that mean when I create a new item based on template "Form 786", the Item Details pane contains my blank "Incident Report" with MS word as my editor?
Both the short and long answer, yes.
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