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#16
11-17-2010, 12:02 PM
#17
11-18-2010, 08:51 AM
 schferk Registered User Join Date: 11-02-2010 Posts: 151
Thank you very much for your video, kinook.

It helped me in seeing that by
"(Control-4)" in "and paste it into the URL attribute (Ctrl+4) of the new document item."
you meant not the URL attribute itself but the attributes pane.
My fault: I had changed keys so control-4 did not show the attributes pane anymore, and since you did not speak of it, I did not capture that URL attribute was not in "Item Details Pane" (which is "text pane" for me) but here in this special pane. So first problem resolved.

Then, I did as stated, pasting the "target item" (in fact that pasted the target-item-title only) into the URL value field of the linking item.
Then, double mouse click on the linking-item title in the tree (or control-j or by menu Item Open Document) just gave the message "File not Found."

So I tried to arrange manually, after copying into URL field, the item in db 2 being named "Taget Item (is in file 2)" (without the inverted commas), I changed URL attribute in the linking item (in db 1) to:
ur://C:\1.urd/"Target item is in 1"
No way, and independently if I use slashes or backslashes. So I renamed the target, to put only this:

ur://C:\1.urd\Target

And again, independent of slashes or backslashes, I got

"Error opening database (...) File doesn't exist."

So the problem lies in the fact that my pasting the "target" does not paste but the target's name, into this URL attribute, which is "Target" (without the inverted commas"), where in fact Ultra Recall seems to need a path, but I do not know how to copy and then paste (or construct manually) this path.

Your video does not show how you managed to put the whole path into the URL attribute since first it is cut to the right frame, and second, since my pasting does not give but the title only, where your pasting gives some path (even if I do not know in which form), so again I am stuck.

I must have something to do with the command line form in Options-Miscellaneous:
ur://%DB_URL%?item=%ITEM_PATH%

So I changed the URL attribute to and some other combinations:

ur://c:/1.urd%?item=%Target%

And again I get the above message.

So since your video does not show the most important part, the whole URL attribute, I do not know how to format the URL attribute (My first thought was that those % were not to be placed in it but in the video I see the first of them, so they seem to belong there.).

But where could be the reason why Ultra Recall does not copy / paste but the title, not the path, so that I must put it in manually in the first place?

I did never encounter any program as complicated as Ultra Recall, even for things that should be so simple, but I know its logical linking is spectacular, so if I gave up, I would lose this, but it is really difficult to have to ask for help for almost everything!

Last edited by schferk; 11-18-2010 at 08:59 AM.
#18
11-18-2010, 08:59 AM
The screen recording shows all the steps that were taken. Copying the item in the tree (about 48 seconds into the screen recording) is all that's needed to copy the item's URL. Then pasting in the URL attribute field (54 seconds) will insert the correct value into the field.
#19
11-18-2010, 09:23 AM
 schferk Registered User Join Date: 11-02-2010 Posts: 151
Thank you very much, kinook, I got it.

My error: I had always tried to paste into the "value" part of the URL attributes field (mouse cursor / mouse click in the "value" segment), when I should have pasted into the title part of the URL attributes field (mouse cursor over / mouse click in the "URL" title segment of the URL attributes field when pressing control-v).

Perhaps this is the same with other attributes: When it does not work correctly when you try to paste a value in the value field, try to paste it over the title part before the value field.

This sounds crazy, but it is the solution, all other things being strictly the same.

Incredible.

Thanks a lot!

Last edited by schferk; 11-18-2010 at 09:47 AM.
#20
03-02-2011, 06:42 AM
 schferk Registered User Join Date: 11-02-2010 Posts: 151
As usual in UR, I'm stuck with the basic things.

I've stripped my UR database from the display of unwanted attributes, so the only attribute that's currently been displayed, has been the icon (in order to change that manually, of course).

Now I wanted to experiment with accessing UR items by third-party programs, in order to construct UR as a FOUR PANE outliner: No, not a joke, I wanted to use ListPro (and its capability to trigger links) as a sort of a "launcher" for my MAIN UR items, in order to have another, overlayed level on UR and setting up UR's tree as a SECOND-LEVEL list, the children pane becoming the third - all this in order to make order in my mountains of data, in the absence of plus signs in the children pane.

The advantage of such a zero level on top being that clicking there, the main topic in UR's tree can "open" = expand, instead of "being left alone" = collapsed: Thus, one MORE level can be displayed in the children pane, which is of utmost importance if you try to flatten out your tree, but then have (almost / normally) all its levels displayed.

Of course, once you'll have constructed such a system relying on third-party add-ons (and at least in ListPro), you'll be able to set a SECOND level into that third-party program, which gives you two other levels in UR's tree and then its children pane, so this will make UR a FIVE-PANE outliner!

All this is far from being weird: Once you've got accustomed to quite a few levels of displaying your information, you'd never go back... and, finally, that's why we're all into outliners, instead of being into MS Word or any other normal "text processor", right?

So, back to basics. For experimenting, I created a new UR database. Then, I tried to display the URL attribute in the attributes' pane, in order to identify the URL for UR items I should then paste into ListPro. (The new database was automatically created with some settings from my stripped-down main database.)

No chance. The menu VIEW - CHOOSE COLUMS isn't but for the children pane, and even if "URL" is checked there, it's not displayed in the attributes field.

Thus going for the menu TOOLS - ATTRIBUTES. There, "URL" is checked already (and that's meaning "system", not meaning "to be displayed", then), but of course, it's not displayed in the attributes field (since I'm writing here). So I try the "Insert" button there, but to no avail, this would create a NEW attribute, and all I want is that an existing attribute, the URL one, should be displayed in the attributes pane.

Now for the menu TOOLS - OPTIONS - ATTRIBUTES. And here, the "URL" is not in the list, thus cannot be checked by me: Where is it gone?

1 hour's search in the help file and in the forum: nada result.

As an alternative, could you tell us the identification / url construction for UR items? As said before, main items / header items should be clickable, by their internal address, from third party linking programs.

I even tried with the itemID, since that I got back into my attributes pane (since it's in the list of the menu TOOLS - OPTIONS - ATTRIBUTES where the URL attribute is not), in the form link to:

file://c:\ur\i.urd\itemid=1006

or even without the "file://" part of this, but all this to no avail.

So how to reintegrate the URL attribute, and / or how to link to UR items from external programs?

(And let's hope their additional functionality will be integrated into UR itself, but for the time being, the combination UR plus ListPro should make an outstanding working environment in itself.)
#21
03-02-2011, 06:45 AM
 schferk Registered User Join Date: 11-02-2010 Posts: 151
As usual, it's the moment I trigger the SEND key that I see the solution: the URL attribute doesn't go but with the document thing, not with the text thing. So I'll try with that and'll give my results soon.
#22
03-02-2011, 07:24 AM
 schferk Registered User Join Date: 11-02-2010 Posts: 151
OK here we are (or are we not?):

- close UR (= ALL databases)

- there, trigger "EnableCanInsertDocumentTemplate"

- restart UR (= now the Document format is included in the lists)

- create a Document

- select and copy (^c) any item you want to access by third party programs' links

- paste that "item" onto the "header" part of the URL attribute entry of your new Document (= select the field with the word "URL" in the attributes pane, not the empty field to the right of it, then do a ^v)

- now you can idenfy your item you want to be accessible by third party programs, up to now, for UR's internal use, it's in the form

ur//c:\UR\i.urd\item=11164,1000

EDIT1: it's really in the form
ur//c:\UR\i.urd?item=11164,1000
here

In this form, you cannot access your item from the outside yet.

Neither this way: file:ur//c:\UR\i.urd\item=11164,1000

Nor this way: file://ur//c:\UR\i.urd\item=11164,1000

And this way neither: file://c:\UR\i.urd\item=11164,1000

And no chance with: c:\UR\i.urd\item=11164,1000

Neither with: ur:c:\UR\i.urd\item=11164,1000

with the setting, in ListPro, "Linked Files Location" = c:\ur\ ?

No way, the message is "the file c:\UR\i.urd\item=11164,1000" cannot be found".

Thus, kinook, please tell you us how to access UR items from the outside; the tremendous utility of being able to do so seems evident.

EDIT2: Oh, and I tried with doing the "item=11164,1000" part in "" AFTER the path/file part, and I tried with the "?" instead of the "\": no way!

EDIT3: So I tried with "internal linking", i.e. copy an item, then pasting it into the text pane of another item, then having a look onto the "Hyperlink Properties" (= accessible by right-clicking the link).

I got, e.g.:

ur:///?item=10965,10909,10178,1000

OMG, that's complicated! Should we try with FOUR such numbers, and in which format then? But I suppose that 2 of the 4 numbers just designate the target item and the link position in that target item, so that cannot bring the solution?

EDIT4: So I finally made various tries with just the "11164" part, leaving out the "1000 part", but to no avail. And please, if it's not possible to "open" UR at precise items from the outside, please make UR accessible in this way.

Since internal links can do it, external links also should be able to do it without too much programming needed for this, I hope.

Last edited by schferk; 03-02-2011 at 08:05 AM.
#23
03-02-2011, 08:02 AM

See http://www.kinook.com/UltraRecall/Ma...miscdialog.htm for more details.
#24
03-02-2011, 08:48 AM
 schferk Registered User Join Date: 11-02-2010 Posts: 151
Tremendous!

I hadn't been aware of the menu command ITEM - COPY ITEM COMMAND LINE.

So, if you have:

TOOLS - OPTIONS - MISCELLANEOUS - Item Command Line Format:
ur://%DB_URL%?item=%ITEM_PATH%

( from the help file: )
"%ITEM_PATH%: Expands to the full lineage of item ID Attributes (item ID of item, its parent, grandparent, etc.) for the selected Ultra Recall Info Item."

(BTW, very smart of yours, since with cloning, UR items can indeed have various lineages; I didn't think of it since I've got only main entries / headings in mind for what I want to do with it now.)

this brings this output (e.g.):

ur://C:/UR/i.urd?item=29156,6214,4320,3194,1000

and then you must REPLACE the first "ur" by "file":

file://C:/UR/i.urd?item=26060,6214,4320,3194,1000

and you're done, ListPro and other third party programs will get you to your item / heading.

WOW !

Now, I'm ready to simulate UR as a 5-plus-pane outliner, and in some weeks, I'll share my experience.

You see, on your homepage, you cite somebody saying, "I consider the search for the perfect PIM finished." That looks a little bit preposterous at first sight, but then, you understand that guy's right, not in the way that UR cannot be enhanced in any way, but in the way that UR is the outstanding product where every enhancement is going to widen the advance over competiting ones.

Chapeau.
#25
03-02-2011, 11:31 AM
 schferk Registered User Join Date: 11-02-2010 Posts: 151
And now for the problems.

a )

I install ListPro. I does links, but it's ugly:

- Resize it to 1/4 of your screen width, UR taking the remaining 3/4, and you see that ListPro's menu cannot be hidden but will take 1/3 of your screen height, from your list that hasn't thus got not enough screen height anymore.

-There is no click or special click onto an item that could trigger a link when the item has a link(ing) column, but they force you to click on the link itself in order to trigger it. This makes double screen width for this list, or just let appear a little bit of the links' column on your screen in order to be able to click on it, but again, it's really ugly.

I told them about it months ago, they thanked me for my mail, and that was it up to now, but then, they didn't bring out any new version yet, with or without taking my hints into consideration, so there's a chance "tomorrow" it'll be less ugly than it is today (there are other details, like the unnecessary root item that can't be hidden completely, etc., and of which I'd told them).

b )

THE LINKS DON'T REALLY WORK !

In the UR OPTIONS (see above) I changed the "Item command line format" to

file://%DB_URL%?item=%ITEM_PATH%

Then (and I even closed UR and reopened it, in order to avoid setting problems), I put the command "Copy Item Command Line" onto a key combination.

This gives me outputs from UR to the clipboard in the form of

file://C:/UR/i.urd?item=1115,1000

that I put unchanged into the link field of ListPro (by ^v).

This I do for several UR items, and then I try this "linking" out, by clicking on those links in ListPro.

Focus changes very well to UR, UR is activated, resized from minimized state in case...

but UR is NOT "opened at" that precise item, but, in every case, and with all those DIFFERENT links, at the item that had focus last time UR had focus!

c )

So I tried those links with a different program, i.e. MS Word 2003, i.e. I inserted the original UR links into Word and then activated those links there: Same as with ListPro, focus changes to UR, at the last selected item, and not at the item that was supposed to be linked to!

Now you, kinook, I don't see a solution to this. Perhaps other link formats in UR would function better, but then, even this elaborate link format was supposed to trigger the right item?

Perhaps some more adjustments than just the replacement of the initial "ur" with an initial "file" are needed? Links beginning with "ur:" are not processed by third party applications, but those with a "file:" at the beginning are, but then, within UR, the further processing = going to the right item is lacking.

Do I something wrong, is there another setting I didn't put care into?

4 )

Something I wrote to ListPro today: When you switch back and forth between UR and your browser (= by Alt-Tab or any macro key or other), with such an add-on present to UR, you'd switch between your browser here and UR and the add-on there, and just by Windows means this isn't possible, i.e. each switching back will only show UR alone or ListPro alone, not both. So I asked them what to do about this; for them, it would be a splendid idea to market ListPro as such a device as intended by me, since the same concept would apply to many an application, not only to UR.

This being said, perhaps such a coupling with another program could be done within UR, or within a macro (= "whenever UR window is activated, activate ListPro (or whatever) together with it" - I fear screen flashing though...

Thus, where's the trick within the linking formula, please, to begin with?
#26
03-02-2011, 11:48 AM
I don't know why you keep changing the ur: prefix to file: -- that's not going to work. In all the places I tested (Run dialog, IE address bar, Microsoft Word), launching a URL created as shown in the screen recording starts/activates UR and navigates to that item. If this doesn't work in ListPro, then it's not calling Windows correctly to launch the URL.
#27
03-02-2011, 12:59 PM
 schferk Registered User Join Date: 11-02-2010 Posts: 151
Unfortunately, I do not understand why you succeed in triggering those links, while you don't tell me why my "links" don't trigger anything.

With regards to your answer, I changed my setting again to this format:

ur://%DB_URL%?item=%ITEM_PATH%

and thus I get "links" in this format:

ur://C:/UR/i.urd?item=3019,1000

= real addresses, not fake ones.

Then, I try ListPro with them. No chance. Ok, ListPro's fault.

Then, I try this command in the DOS box (I've got Windows XP SP3, latest builds): NO CHANCE.

Then, I try the same command in the "execute box" ("Start", then "Execute" or whatever it might be in English): NO CHANCE !!!!!

Then, I try again and again to work out the same "link" in MS Word 2003: NO CHANCE !

I do a link to a "file or web page" there, with this

ur://C:/UR/i.urd?item=3019,1000

(or any other such item, I tried dozens of them).

There's two fields in the Word dialogue, Text to Show and Address: I put this into both or anything into Text to Show, but again this into the address field of the linking dialogue.

Then, I try and control-click: My browser (!) opens (= since Word did not know it's a file, not a web page, and hasn't got any indication like "file://" vs. "www." or whatever) with the message: Page cannot be found.

And so on and so on, I'm turning round here.

There MUST be something out there why you succeed in making your links work in your working environment, when I don't get anywhere with your instructions.

I'm certainly not playing around here, I'm searching for solutions, not for stealing anybody's time, at the very least mine.

So please, kinook, have a better look at this than just blaming me for not succeeding in creating those links. I'm sure you're not inventing them, but be sure I'm not inventing these problems either.
#28
03-02-2011, 04:22 PM
 $bill Registered User Join Date: 09-14-2006 Posts: 210 Although I have used it successfully many times previously, I can't get the URL Syntax to work here either (Win7sp1, URp 4.2.1.0) Item command-line format>> ur://%DB_URL%?item=%ITEM% Using Item | copy item command line and pasting to the command prompt, returns the error message >>'ur:' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. #29 03-02-2011, 04:24 PM  kinook Administrator Join Date: 03-06-2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,752 Not sure what's wrong there, but it works fine in Word and ListPro in my tests: http://www.kinook.com/Download/Temp/URL2.zip From a Command Prompt, you need to use start "UR" "ur://C:/UR/i.urd?item=3019,1000" since it doesn't invoke shell commands or URL protocols otherwise, or use the %UR% %DB% /item %ITEM% command-line format mentioned at http://www.kinook.com/UltraRecall/Ma...iscdialog.htm. Maybe make sure you have run the full installer and aren't using the portable version. http://www.kinook.com/UltraRecall/Ma...stallation.htm #30 03-02-2011, 04:56 PM $bill Registered User Join Date: 09-14-2006 Posts: 210
Sorry....of course you are right about the Run vs command prompt....perhaps my caffeine level needs adjustment.....

And it works fine here....

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