Freezing upon database switch

[karelt]

Hi,
I am observing a bug and I am in the process of gathering info so I can submit a report to Kinook. I wonder if anybody else perhaps suffers from the same issue so that we could pool our experiences before any of us submit the bug:

I have two databases open at all times and I switch between them. No matter how I do the switch, very often one or the other database freezes and UR must be killed and restarted.

Hope I am not the only one living thru this :-) Thanks in advance for any additional info!

Best
K

[cnewtonne]

Most common 'freezing' I have seen in UR is when switch to an info item that is a web page. I do know why, some webpages will take up to 45 secs to display.

Verify if you are switching between databases where the active info item is a web page that is too slow.

Thanks

[karelt]

Thanks for your reply, cnewtonne!
This is not the case, though. I have no web pages in my databases. Just text.


K

[Spliff]

You don't give specifics about the databases. I suppose you will have done the "Tools - Compact and Repair" for both of them, and the problem persists: in both directions, or just in of of them (a>b AND b>a)?

I suggest you create new databases for both, then import everything into those, then see if the problem persists.

By "import", I mean copy ^c in the original databases, switch to the respective new one, then do ^v; I did this for bulks of 5-digit numbers of items at a time, so if you do this for sub-trees containing several thousand items each, there should not occur a problem in the process.

The only REAL problem arising from doing this is possible de-sync afterwards, since while you observe and check, several days, you will have to decide which ones of the databases you will use, the old, or the new ones, and if you then decide to continue to use the other one...

I suggest that after that "export", you just use the new databases (you'll rename the old ones accordingly), after again a "Compact and Repair" which will recreate the text index.

(I have no experience with UR databases though which contain web pages.)

Btw, the perfect SQLite tool for UR is Navicat for SQLite; if you don't use it professionally, you can buy it for private use for $99 plus VAT. (On the other hand, it's a very bad moment to buy since you'd buy v. 15, while v. 16 is way overdue, but you could use, for some days, the fully-functional trial.)

The reason why I say "perfect": It's the only one of those tools which integrates data compare (to be found in the manual by searching for "data syncing"), and that's the functionality you'll be interested in after switching thousands of items between databases, and all the more so if after some days, you'll want to switch your "new" items from one database to the other.


EDIT: I forgot: First thing is to note how many items, then check after the switch; I never encountered item differences so this is to be considered reliable.

And I'd like to explain why I think the a copy into a new file might help; I make assumptions here; correct me if I'm wrong.

SQLite is a quite weird format, the whole database within one file (!), so in that file, there obviously is some "package around" the records, and that may have become slightly faulty, so a "new package" - the data "around" the records data - could help.

I do NOT think that faulty records (especially the "content" fields) may play a role here, because I don't think there is some "check" for all those records and their respective integrity when opening an SQLite database, let alone when just switching to it (i.e. when it's already opened), and faulty records could crash the database indeed, when "touched", i.e. upon the try to access them; before that, they, and their possible database crashing effect, should remain "dormant", so even some really faulty web page "content" record - which obviously would be copied into the new, data-replicating database - should very probably not cause the effect you see.

I may be mistaken though.

[karelt]

Thanks for your reply, Spliff !!

Very cool ideas!

I don't have much time researching the issue right now, but it is on my 2do list.
I changed PC, Win10 version and upgraded UR so these all could be to blame. Frankly, downgrading to previous UR version is the first thing I am going to try. I did the reset etc. described in the UR help. It did not help.

I created two new databases w/o transferring any data into them and the freezing bug still occurred.

I will definitely keep the information you posted about SQLite in my UR notes so that when I need it, I have it handy. I did some minor SQLite editing in the past and could not find a good editor. Perhaps the one that you have suggested could be the way to go for me. I don't need to do this often though.

Best regards
K

[Spliff]

Hello karelt,
you're welcome!

I'm intrigued by your, "I created two new databases w/o transferring any data into them and the freezing bug still occurred." - sorry for not also having said you probably should "re-install" UR; by "re-install", I mean just download the current v. 6.2 again again, then "install", i.e. OVER your existing install (when neither UR nor any UR database is open; well, the former would include the latter...).

Neither your settings nor your license will be affected by this, and hopefully, you'll get rid of the phenomenon.

If not, Kyle should be interested in this problem, and since your two NEW databases do NOT contain any data (and, as such, no personal data either), perhaps sending those two databases in to kinook could help in identifying the problem? But, clearly, UR 6.2 "re-install" should come first.

I would not go back to previous versions; you would not profit from (hopeful) amendments...

As for Navicat, (real) "professionals" swear about it, and I've got why they do, in the meantime - I hadn't been so much "convinced" after discovering they had discarded (!) the print functionality, but then, there is a quite good export functionality instead, and the print output of some of their "competitors" are, whilst they exist indeed, really bad. (Also, they also have a good graphical database construction (or then, "re-engineering") tool included, so it's really, almost "complete", minus the native print-out that is - but then, I prefer script the output anyway, for it to be to my liking, which is never the case with the in-built export and/or print tools of most applications...)

That being said, there are both some free SQLite interfaces (I'd prefer SQLite Expert Lite for this... whilst the same, "paid", is certainly not worth your money), and some free SQLite data comparison tools (I did not try them though), so, yes, you could wait for v. 16 to finally be released or even then decide you're fine with the free SQLite tools. Just refrain from buying $100-or-any such tools which do NOT offer the package; thus, I would never endorse SQLite Maestro, Sqlite Viewer, SQLabs SQLite Manager, SyBrowser, RazorSQL, and so on; also, a "visual query builder" - which you don't really need after all -, is NOT equivalent, and far from it, to a real graphic construction tool.

Btw, this night, I got the automated W10 19043.1083 update, and that does NOT seem to be a stable one, to put it friendly... so if your problems are very recent, MS may be behind it again...

[cnewtonne]

I have been running UR on Windows 10 since the latter came out probably seven years ago. No issues there. I'm currently running latest 21H1 release.

This is what I'm running
#----------------------------------------
Ultra Recall Professional 6.2 (x64)
Copyright © 2004-2021 Kinook Software, Inc.
Registered to: xxxx (1-user license)
Windows version: Windows 10 Home
Install path: C:\Program Files\UltraRecall
HRW15.DLL version 15.0.0.1
HTW21.DLL version 21,0,0,0
msptls.dll version 15.0.4420.1017
msvcr100.dll version 10.00.40219.325
PolarSpellChecker.dll version 4.0.5.6
riched20.dll version 15.0.4420.1017
SftPrintPreview_x64_U_20.dll version 2.07
TEW26.DLL version 26.0.0.7
UltraRecall.exe version 6.2.0.3
unins000.exe version 51.52.0.0
Database filename: C:\Users\xxxxx\xxxx.urd
Database version: 4.0.1 [FTS]

Do you mind sharing the above as well. help/about/copy

[Spliff]

@cnewtonn: Mine (but I suppose you address your suggestion in particular to karelt?):

Ultra Recall Professional 6.2 (x64)
Copyright © 2004-2021 Kinook Software, Inc.
Registered to: XXX (1-user license)
Windows version: Windows 10 Pro
Install path: C:\Program Files\UltraRecall
HRW15.DLL version 15.0.0.1
HTW21.DLL version 21,0,0,0
msptls.dll version 15.0.4420.1017
msvcr100.dll version 10.00.40219.325
PolarSpellChecker.dll version 4.0.5.6
riched20.dll version 15.0.4420.1017
SftPrintPreview_x64_U_20.dll version 2.07
TEW26.DLL version 26.0.0.7
UltraRecall.exe version 6.2.0.3 [this is the current one, I checked on purpose today]
unins000.exe version 51.52.0.0
Database filename: [path\]A.urd
Database version: 4.0.1 [FTS]

When I spoke about the lacking robustness of my newest W10 update, that was because in UR, I got repeated "black screens", but no "bluescreen"; did not repeat itself in-between though.

"No issues there." might be a little bit vague - do you just mean UR-Windows interaction?

For example, for the last 14 days or so, just my main UR database (i.e. "A" for "Allgemein" = "General") re-opens automatically on every new session, any further databases I then have to re-open manually, this with "Reload selection and tabs from last database session" ON (as always, and I checked this again); this phenomenon also "survived my latest "Compact and Repair" (which reset my 15s wait for the ("A" only now) database visual rendering to "almost immediately" indeed).

And for such phenomena, it's never entirely evident if those are UR or UR-W10 issues; whilst it's obvious that they just occur on some systems, not also on others, e.g. yours.

[cnewtonne]

No issues there." might be a little bit vague - do you just mean UR-Windows interaction?

I meant no crashes, performance, hanging, or user interface display issues running it on Win10 throughout these years.

The only hang issues I experience on some web pages when saved into UR, can take up to 45 secs to display and the UI turns whitish and taskmgr says process is hung. But, it eventually becomes responsive again.

karelt's issue is interesting. Hope Kinook support gets the time to respond to it.

Thanks

[karelt]

Hi!
Just want to make it clear that I did not submit anything to the Kinook support yet. Obviously this issue is not a widespread problem and I have not gotten myself to fully test it yet, but it will happen. Hope to get it reported in August (this year).
Best
K

[Spliff]

Hi both. Mine's interesting, too. ;-) As said, just the first-positioned, "A" database loading automatically, in spite of the settings - and I was right about the allegedly non-robust W10 update 3 or 4 days ago, today I see the next W update symbol having appeared - it will update after 10 in the evening, let's hope for the best.

[kinook]

Originally Posted by Spliff

For example, for the last 14 days or so, just my main UR database (i.e. "A" for "Allgemein" = "General") re-opens automatically on every new session, any further databases I then have to re-open manually, this with "Reload selection and tabs from last database session" ON (as always, and I checked this again); this phenomenon also "survived my latest "Compact and Repair" (which reset my 15s wait for the ("A" only now) database visual rendering to "almost immediately" indeed).

And for such phenomena, it's never entirely evident if those are UR or UR-W10 issues; whilst it's obvious that they just occur on some systems, not also on others, e.g. yours.

The 'Reload selection and tabs from last database session' option does not control which databases get reopened when UR starts up (rather, it controls what will happen with a DB when it does get reopened), and Compact & Repair wouldn't have any effect on this behavior. The Windows version shouldn't matter either.

If UR is started with a command-line parameter to open a database (see https://kinook.com/UltraRecall/Manua...linesyntax.htm), just that database will be opened.

If UR is started without that parameter (and the Shift key is not held down), it will re-open all databases that were open when UR was last exited (if File | Exit or Alt+F4 was used to close UR).

Also see

https://kinook.com/UltraRecall/Manual/miscellaneous.htm

You can use Process Explorer (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...ocess-explorer) -> UltraRecall.exe -> Properties -> Image to determine what command-line flags were passed when the process was started.

You can see (or alter) what database were last opened (and will be reopened) in the registry under

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Kinook Software\Ultra Recall\Options
OpenDocument1
OpenDocument2
...

[Spliff]

Oh, I see, thank you very much, Kyle! (Sorry for my late answer, I wasn't well.)

I downloaded Process Explorer, ran it, then ^f Ultra for finding the UR entry, then double-click on that:
Path: C:\Program Files\UltraRecall\UltraRecall.exe
Command line: "C:\Program Files\UltraRecall\UltraRecall.exe"

Fact is, up to some weeks ago, UR loaded all of the databases I had opened in the previous session (and which were open when I closed the session of course), and now it just loads my main database, and I think I did not change any setting in-between (?), but I certainly did not fiddle with the Windows registry, so currently, I can't explain from which fact arises the change in the behavior.

I had changed some settings within the registry indeed, via your tools, since I try to minimize unnecessary hdd writings, and I (obviously) don't need the cooperation functionality info, nor the item access counters, etc., but that was months ago.

Obviously, I would only enter additional databases into the registry if I were to load them systematically on every session, but whilst most of the time, I need the databases which had been open when I closed the previous session, those vary, more or less, i.e. database selection changes I then make within a session, would not be reflected by my - fixed - registry settings. As said, up to some weeks ago, all the databases from the end of the previous session opened, quite naturally, upon start of the next one, it's just that their order was somewhat mixed up, except for the fact that "A" always was on position one; now I have to open them manually. And yes, I always start UR by (the unchanged, above) command-line.

But you're right, I obviously mixed up "database tabs" with "hoisting tabs", and I can confirm that the setting in question works fine for both functionalities (i.e. reopen the sub-trees, and reopen the hoist tabs), within that only database which loads.


EDIT:

I just both tried File-Exit and Alt-F4, as you suggest, and was succesful with both. UR saves every 5 minutes or so, but before closing down my pc, I again do a ^s, but had NOT closed UR then (anymore), so UR obviously saves the "which databases are loaded" info for reopening them just before executing the "File-Exit" (i.e. "Close UR"), does not maintain that info dynamically while running.

So it obviously was my own behavior that had changed in-between, not UR's: Sorry, but it's good to have clarified from where it came!

Obviously, I'll have to a final Alt-F4 on UR, after my ^s, before doing my Win-x u u for closing down my pc. Hadn't even been aware of that possible cause, sorry again!

[Spliff]

Can't edit the above. UR's described behavior remains aleatoric, even after leaving UR with Alt-F, then only closing down the pc, most of the time, just the alphabetically first, the "A", database is re-opened on next UR start. Haven't found out about possible specific circumstances which might cause this but I'm positive now it's not my closing Windows without first closing UR. Is not really important though.

[karelt]

For anybody interested in the original problem, I have just uploaded a detailed info to Kinook.

Also, pls, do not post any more unrelated topics in this thread. It makes it difficult to navigate for anybody searching the forum. (see https://www.google.com/search?q=thre...utf-8&oe=utf-8)


K


Note: Update from customer 10/11/2021:

I tried a different approach to using two databases. I no longer autostart Ultra Recall with Windows and both databases loaded. Instead, I open any of the two databases as needed using AutoHotkey and a kind of "C:\Program Files\Ultra Recall\UltraRecall.exe d:\database.urd" command. When either database or both of them is open this way, there is no freezing. Although this started as a workaround I have actually found working this way to be more satisfactory for me than the autostart and following clicking on an appropriate icon. That is why I no longer consider the reported bug to be an issue for me.