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-   -   Cleaning up Keyword List (http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=2563)

janrif 04-28-2007 07:06 PM

Cleaning up Keyword List
 
I changed my mind about how I want my user defined keywords to funcion. As a result, I have keywords in my list which I want to delete. In searching help I couldn't find any hints on deleting these keywords & there is no delete key. I know I can just not check those that I don't want to use but I want to clean up/shorten the list.

kinook 04-30-2007 09:03 AM

Uncheck/uncheck all deletes those keywords for the currently selected item(s). If that is the last item with a particular keyword, the keyword will no longer show up unchecked for other items either.

Jon Polish 04-30-2007 10:19 AM

I don't think that is what Jan had in mind. I think he would like to delete one or more user defined keywords so that they no longer appear.

Jan, it does not appear that is possible to do. I could be wrong, and if so hopefully someone will correct me.

Jon

quant 04-30-2007 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Polish
I don't think that is what Jan had in mind. I think he would like to delete one or more user defined keywords so that they no longer appear.

Jan, it does not appear that is possible to do. I could be wrong, and if so hopefully someone will correct me.

Jon

I think it is what Jan had in mind. You cannot delete user defined keyword as long as there is an item which uses it. And as Kinook replied, once you un-check it on the last item, it will not longer appear on the list ... it works this way because the user defined keywords that appear on the list are per database, not per item (those that relate to item are checked).

Jon Polish 04-30-2007 11:20 AM

Thanks for the reply.

So you can delete a user defined keyword from the list? I can't seem to do that. As a trial, I created a user defined keywork and assigned it to one item. Moved to another item and then returned to the original item. Unchecked the box, and navigated frth and back again. The user defined keyword remains (although unchecked). How do you get rid of it?

Jon

quant 04-30-2007 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Polish
Thanks for the reply.

So you can delete a user defined keyword from the list? I can't seem to do that. As a trial, I created a user defined keywork and assigned it to one item. Moved to another item and then returned to the original item. Unchecked the box, and navigated frth and back again. The user defined keyword remains (although unchecked). How do you get rid of it?

Jon

same here :)

Kinook?

kinook 04-30-2007 01:20 PM

There does seem to be a bug in v3.0.4 -- the keyword does not disappear from the list after unchecking from all items. We will investigate. For now, just ignore the unchecked keywords.

janrif 04-30-2007 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Polish
I don't think that is what Jan had in mind. I think he would like to delete one or more user defined keywords so that they no longer appear.
Exactly right about my question & it appears we now have the answer.

Not having a delete key is a little weird to me altho I suppose it prevents users from removing an assigned keyword but having it disappear off the list if not used is a bit strange to me too.

wordmuse 10-14-2007 02:33 AM

Hi there,

Any update on this?

My user-defined keywords list has grown kind of cluttered. I'd really like to be able to simply delete the keywords I no longer want without having to go through the items.

Rather, I'd like the deletion of the keyword from the list to cascade through all items that made use of it.

If I don't want the keyword for one or more particular items, that is where checking and unchecking would be the correct procedure.

Thanks.

Regards,
Bal

igoldsmid 10-14-2007 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wordmuse
Hi there,

Any update on this?

My user-defined keywords list has grown kind of cluttered. I'd really like to be able to simply delete the keywords I no longer want without having to go through the items.

Rather, I'd like the deletion of the keyword from the list to cascade through all items that made use of it.

If I don't want the keyword for one or more particular items, that is where checking and unchecking would be the correct procedure.

Thanks.

Regards,
Bal

Me too thanks!

kinook 10-15-2007 08:57 AM

In the Item Keywords dialog (Ctrl+K), select the keyword and click Search (Alt+S). Select all of the search results (Ctrl+3, Ctrl+A), open the Item Keyword dialog again, select and uncheck the keyword (Space) to remove from all items.

Jon Polish 10-15-2007 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kinook
In the Item Keywords dialog (Ctrl+K), select the keyword and click Search (Alt+S). Select all of the search results (Ctrl+3, Ctrl+A), open the Item Keyword dialog again, select and uncheck the keyword (Space) to remove from all items.
I think what we are all talking about is the ability to purge the unwanted user defined keywords from the list so they no longer appear. This can be done with the auto generated keywords, so why not the user defined ones?

Jon

kinook 10-15-2007 09:36 AM

After a word has been unchecked from all items, it will no longer appear in the list (after the Item Keywords dialog is dismissed and then displayed again).

Jon Polish 10-15-2007 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kinook
After a word has been unchecked from all items, it will no longer appear in the list (after the Item Keywords dialog is dismissed and then displayed again).
My database is still compressing, so I have had a while to consider this behavior. Actually, I disagree and think there should be a separate option to delete user defined keywords. It is not obvious that unchecking the keywords from all items will remove them, nor do I think, it is desirable. Why? Well I might want to retain some or all of the user-defined keywords for future assignments. New users can indavertantly remove all of their user defined keywords unintentionally. Is there any warning that these keywords will be deleted? I know there is a workaround - just maintain one item with all the desired keywords checked - but don't you think the behavior should be congruous to the behavior of the auto generated keywords?

Thank you

Jon

kinook 10-16-2007 08:51 AM

It is consistent with the auto-generated keyword behavior. The only difference is that the user-def list includes keywords also defined on other items. And it's simple enough to re-add the keyword to an item if it was removed from all of them.

Jon Polish 10-16-2007 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kinook
It is consistent with the auto-generated keyword behavior. The only difference is that the user-def list includes keywords also defined on other items. And it's simple enough to re-add the keyword to an item if it was removed from all of them.
I understand your point of view. User generated keywords allow me to structure data in supplemental ways. If I want to remove all user keyords assigned to items but retain the structure for future assignments, I can't. Well, I can, but I must use the workaround I mentioned before. That's OK with me, but other users can inadvertently lose a list of keywords without warning and unintentionally.

Just my opinion.

Jon

P.S. My workaround is cumbersome and still prone to failure as it must be updated every time a new user defined keword is added.

wordmuse 10-20-2007 12:21 AM

OK - So I stupidly created a keyword starting with an equal sign (=), as in =new results. I was hoping that this would truly limit my searches by enabling me to put the equal sign before the word new in an advanced search.

Doesn't work that way. Maybe = is a wild card?

Anyway, when I do the search for =new results, I get 39 items. I have Ctrl+K'd through each one to uncheck all instances of =new results, and not one of the matched items shows the keyword as checked off.

I can't easily find the one or few items that I set to that keyword phrase. So it just sits there at the top of the keyword list.

I hope I've spelled out my difficulty clearly. If not, let me know and I'll try some more...

====
It would be really helpful to me if one or both of the following suggestions was implemented.

1 - When I show the keyword list dialog let me delete any keyword or keyword phrase from within the dialog and let that decision stand for all items. Let inadvertent removal of a keyword from an item that should have it be my lookout.

2 - Let me see the keywords related to an item without having to open the dialog - preferably exposing them in the main interface. At least this way I could scroll through my infobase and more easily detect the misbegotten item that's causing my difficulty and delete the keyword there.

Of the two, #1 forms my very strong preference.

Thanks.

Regards,
Bal

quant 10-20-2007 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wordmuse
[B]OK - So I stupidly created a keyword starting with an equal sign (=), as in =new results. I was hoping that this would truly limit my searches by enabling me to put the equal sign before the word new in an advanced search.
for that uses, there is an option in search to limit to user defined keywords only, so you could simply use the keyword new, but this keyword is excluded so you wouldn't find it. But searching for "new" (which would be full search) would do the trick. So you should prefer the user defined keywords that are not excluded (you can modify those that are).

Quote:

Originally posted by wordmuse
[B]OK - So I stupidly created a keyword starting with an equal sign (=), as in =new results. I was hoping that this would truly limit my searches by enabling me to put the equal sign before the word new in an advanced search.

Doesn't work that way. Maybe = is a wild card?

Anyway, when I do the search for =new results, I get 39 items. I have Ctrl+K'd through each one to uncheck all instances of =new results, and not one of the matched items shows the keyword as checked off.

I can't easily find the one or few items that I set to that keyword phrase. So it just sits there at the top of the keyword list.

I hope I've spelled out my difficulty clearly. If not, let me know and I'll try some more...
just search for "new" and set to search only user defined keywords ...

wordmuse 10-20-2007 10:37 PM

I appreciate the advice quant. But no joy here. Using your ideas, I did find one item that had the "bad" user-defined keyword and unchecked it, but the keyword persists and all searches that I try, including the ones you suggested, turn up hundreds of hits.

Having to visually inspect each one in a retail way, i.e., individually to see if it has the keyword is an exercise in frustration. And were this mission critical instead of just moderately irritating, I'd pay the price.

As it is, I guess I'll just live with being annoyed until such time as I revamp my infobase completely or that Kinook sees things my way about giving me a delete button for user defined keywords in the keyword dialog. (hint hint) :)

Thanks again.

Regards,
Bal

kevina 10-21-2007 12:27 AM

Use a Quick Search with a criteria of "=new results", including the double quotes, which will find the items (you can convert to Advanced to see the "Advanced" equivalent). You can then select them all, and uncheck the user-keyword (which will delete it from the list), if you desire to do so.

quant 10-21-2007 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wordmuse
I appreciate the advice quant. But no joy here.
do you include double quotes and only searching in user-defined keywords?

quant 10-21-2007 05:08 AM

Anyway, there are several things that should be emphasized (as I understand it). This is basically about quick search.

1. keywords are by definition composed only from letters and numbers

2. they are just one word (you will find sth only when you type the first word, without using double quotes)

3. if you define a keyword that is excluded, it won't be indexed

So you broke all three rules, you included =, used two words, and one of them is by default not keyworded (I assume you did not change the default setting).

If you break any of the rules, you have to use the brute force search that is not using the speed of indexed search.

I am a little bit perplexed about point 2 though. Kinook, why is only the first keyword indexed?

wordmuse 10-21-2007 01:56 PM

THANKS KEVIN!
 
Hi Kevin -

Yep - that did the trick. Thank you very much.

Now I can at least work with URP3 as it is currently designed. I will post my suggestion in the suggestions area, because I think that we must somehow not be having the same understanding of the overall keywords dialog and I want to argue (pleasantly, of course) my case.

Regards,
Bal

wordmuse 10-21-2007 02:00 PM

Hi quant,

I didn't originally and that turned out to be the problem.

Now that I understand the usage better, I can use things like the equal sign as a tactic.

The only reason I wanted to use the equal sign in the user keyword list was because doing so bumped the keyword phrase to the top of the keywords list - out of the natural alphanumeric order.

And using double quotes enables searching by keyword phrase just fine.

Onward and upward...

Regards,
Bal


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