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-   [UR] General Discussion (http://www.kinook.com/Forum/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   How is Ongoing Development? (http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=2237)

igoldsmid 01-24-2007 06:27 PM

I guess if Kinook insist on not implementing 'proper' boolean search with result highlighting - then here is a possible workaround:

Since local pc hard disk space is so abundant & low cost - it would potentially be practical to mirror the entire contents of UR on a file system folder. However there may be two issues:

So far, in existing releases it has not been possible to export every piece of content from UR to the local file system. If my memory serves me correctly - although html, pdf's M. Office docs etc could be readily exported - other items like imported/linked outlook emails, tasks, contacts etc could not. But in order for search to be useful, often it is necessary to be able to search everything. Therefore UR would have to be able to flawlessly export every single item.

Secondly, it would not be able to be an export - it would need to be a synchronization - and following the initial mirroring of UR content onto a file system folder - subsequent "exports" would need to be incremental - including being able to not only recognize new documents/items since the previous "export" - but also to recognize changed documents and "export" those.

I use X1 - or Yahoo desktop search which I find by far the most powerful of the bunch. For example, I could create a saved search that as its starting point always filtered in only the file system folder for my "exported" UR Content.

Having found a result using X1, one would still have to go back to UR and, by using the name of the found document, find it again in UR, using UR's search. Still too many steps really and not at all ideal - but I guess a possible workaround. Unless by some 'magic' UR was able to export item URL's as well, whose file names were identical to the items except they are click-able local url links that navigate back to the appropriate item in UR. (These UR uri's would thus appear next to the exported 'version' as you could sort the file system folder by file name).

I suspect that whatever way it is looked at - either Kinook provide 'proper' boolean & highlighting functionality once (although quite onerous for them no doubt) - or every time every one of their users wants to do an (now standard in every desktop search tool) advanced/boolean search with highlighting, they will have to perform a frustrating too many steps every time...

Ian

dasymington 01-24-2007 06:51 PM

That sounds far too complicated, igoldsmid. I hope Kinook do implement proper boolean searching. I find that, rather than try to get my head round the convoluted indenting method (I have to refer to the Help file every time I try to use it), I end up carrying out several simple searches instead.

ksrhee 01-25-2007 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kinook
Enhanced phrase searching as suggested in http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthre...=&threadid=897 will be implemented in the upcoming beta.

Regarding hilighting of search results, we haven't gotten any feedback to our questions from http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthre...&threadid=2152, but we do have come ideas on it, and this will be a high priority for the next release (not the one going into beta shortly, but the one after that).

Highlighting is something that would be highly desirable. As far as full-text search, I would have to agree that interface could be improved but functionality is still there.

Are we still on schedule for next week for the release of the beta?

kinook 01-26-2007 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dasymington
Quant, I do know about Boolean algebra, but I prefer to write queries using AND, OR and parenthesis: it's much quicker and I find it easier to understand and to edit than UR's indenting.

Google does have OR, but not parenthesis.

Other software does allow OR, e.g., AskSam.

To get the equivalent of a search without parentheses, you don't need to use any indenting in UR advanced search.

Also, UR quick search already supports AND (implicitly or explicitly), and we're investigating the possibility of supporting OR for the next release.

kinook 01-26-2007 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dasymington
What were the questions you were looking for feedback on?
Those in the 2nd paragraph of the 2nd post in http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthre...?threadid=2152

kinook 01-26-2007 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dasymington
I hope this will be a feature that's easy to switch on and off. I don't always want phrase searching; often when I enter two words I want to find documents that contain them both anywhere not just as a phrase.

Couldn't you implement this for the search dialogue:

1. If you enter a series of words separated by spaces, find documents that contain ALL the words - as at present.

2. If you enter a phrase enclosed in double quotes, find documents that contain that PHRASE.

3. If you enter several phrases (each enclosed in double quotes) or combinations of phrases and words separated by spaces, find documents that contain ALL these terms.

4. If you enter words separated by OR (or phrases and words separated by OR), find documents that contain one or more of any of the words or phrases.

5. If possible allow AND and OR statements (which could be single words or phrases) to be prioritised with the use of parenthesis. I don't know how difficult that is, but given that you can prioritise in this way with UR's indenting method, it might be relatively easy to translate such search queries into UR's indented method and then run that; however, I know, I'm not the progammer!

That is almost exactly how it will work. The current behavior of matching all words entered (anywhere in the document or attributes) will remain. Double quotes will mark a phrase to be searched for after filtering on all words in the phrase. And we're looking into the possibility of supporting OR in a quick search.

kinook 01-26-2007 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ksrhee
Are we still on schedule for next week for the release of the beta?
Hopefully (time will tell). Send a request to support@kinook.com if you would like to be included in the notification of its availability.

Leoram 01-26-2007 09:25 AM

Kinook and all:

I like the current state of Advance Search in UR. It is useful as it allows building complex searches and then save them with a name for further easy inquiries. In my opinion it should stay like it is now maybe with the addition of some slight changes to turn its awkward operation into an easier one. But I'd also like to direct your attention to a remarkable document search software that can be found free at:

http://www.searchinform.com/

SearchInform is wonderful at searching. It even has fuzzy search, proximities, search through current results, look for synonyms, similar search, morphology and stem searches, number of found words, highlighting, etc. It has three interesting viewing styles for found documents: Show text only, show in native format viewer and show search summary. Try them each and I'm sure you'll feel comfortable.

I think SearchInform is the answer to the question of Kinook posted at:

http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthre...&threadid=2152


I hope UR will embark in implementing some, if not all of these search features someday. I'm sure UR developers can do that and even possibly more ;).

Leoram 01-26-2007 12:01 PM

1 Attachment(s)
You may consider having a look at SearchInform screenshot in action below:

igoldsmid 01-26-2007 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kinook
Those in the 2nd paragraph of the 2nd post in http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthre...?threadid=2152
Kinook - why don't you just download, install and review X1 / free Yahoo Desktop Search?

zulubeached 01-26-2007 05:00 PM

V2e to next version upgrade fee
 
What are the plans concerning an upgrade from v2.0e to the next version?
I have been testing v2e for a while now, and would like to commit to the professional version of UltraRecall, since it would make be tremendously useful for my work. However I see little sense in purchasing a license now and another one again in a couple of weeks.

For existing users of the professional version, will the update be free or will you charge an upgrade fee?

quant 01-26-2007 08:09 PM

no need to worry :)
who said that the next release (maybe in a month) is going to be V3? I suppose it's going to be either 2.0f or 2.1 ... my guessing based on http://www.kinook.com/Forum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=27

It is my understanding that they do the major release on average in every two years, the first V2.0 version was 2005/may, so you can expect the next big release in more than a year for sure ...

For small releases, their policy is this:

"Upgrades
All minor releases (i.e., 2.0 -> 2.1) are free for licensed users. To upgrade from an earlier version, download the latest version and install over your existing copy. There may be an upgrade fee for major product releases (i.e., 2.x -> 3.x). Any purchase made within 60 days of a major product release will be eligible for a free upgrade to the next major version."

I bought UR 2 weeks ago and love it :)
There are many features that I would like to see in UR, nevertheless even what it offers now is far better that what I could get from other tested softwares ...

ksrhee 01-28-2007 07:08 AM

Re: V2e to next version upgrade fee
 
Quote:

Originally posted by zulubeached
What are the plans concerning an upgrade from v2.0e to the next version?
I have been testing v2e for a while now, and would like to commit to the professional version of UltraRecall, since it would make be tremendously useful for my work. However I see little sense in purchasing a license now and another one again in a couple of weeks.

For existing users of the professional version, will the update be free or will you charge an upgrade fee?

As far as I know it's version 3 that's coming. Kinook has 60 day free upgrade policy from purchase, and they plan to release version 3 before then. They have been very supportive of users; so, even if they miss the deadline, I assume they will be flexible with the upgrading policy.

kinook 01-29-2007 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by igoldsmid
Kinook - why don't you just download, install and review X1 / free Yahoo Desktop Search?
We were hoping to avoid having to download, install, and evaluate several desktop search products. Oh well. Also, UR provides more than just desktop search (attributes as well as document text can be searched, the ability to internally edit many document types, etc.), so some of the issues raised would likely be unique to UR.

kinook 01-29-2007 08:58 AM

Regarding questions about the nature of this update, the version number notwithstanding, v2 technically was not a major release (it was a fairly significant release functionality-wise, but it was a free update).

The next release (v3) will be a major release and the first non-free upgrade of UR since it first was released over 26 months ago.

As was mentioned, all purchases within 60 days of a major release are freely updated to the next version (see http://www.kinook.com/order_policy.html), and in all likelihood the final release will be within 60 days. In fact, any purchase on or after today will be eligible for a free upgrade to v3 when released, even if that occurs more than 60 days from now.


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