UR Browser Problems

[Daly de Gagne]

6/19/05 08:49:41


I have had some strange experiences using Ur's built-in browser.

Usually, I do my browsing in Firefox, and drag urls into UR, placing them where I want them to be. Then, if I wish to store the page thus imported, I call it up in UR, and push the "store" button.

As I am increasingly using UR for my information needs, this morning I decided to do it all in UR, though I do not particularly like the IE browser.

The first thing I noticed was that for no apparent reason, the forward and back arrows lost their ability to move forward and reverse, and I got the generic "server cannot be found" page. This happened before I tried to store anything. I found I could correct the problem by closing UR and reopening it, but the problem would recur.

The next problems were with storing.

In the UR browser, I opened the front page of The Observer. I clicked to the story I wanted, pushed the "store" button, and the web page I had selected had presumably stored. However, I could find it nowhere in UR, even though I searched manually and using the search command.

What I did find out when I used the search command was that UR had stored the front page of The Observer, not the page I had clicked to. I was able to replicate this strange behaviour with The New York Times, ie. the front page stored, not the actual page with the article on it..

So next, I tried dragging the url of the item I wanted from Ur's address bar, and I received an error message: "Error pasting text: Error importing," followed by a very, very long url, and the words "url not found: unknown error".

The work-around for this problem is to use Firefox, and a two-step process to import by dragging the url, and to store, but this is a pain because most the stuff I am importing I want to store in clipping files I have established in UR. It is nice to be able to store in one step, as I used to in Onfolio before shifting to UR.

Apart from the issue of using UR's browser for storing, losing the functionality of the forward and back arrows is a further pain.

Fortunately I can use Firefox and UR without problem, but would appreciate being able to use UR's browser.

Daly

[Daly de Gagne]

6/19/05 09:09:50

Opening another instance of UR, I went to Google, searched for The Observer, clicked on the same article I referred to in my last post, and pushed the "store" button. I clicked back to the Google page, and that page now indicated it was "stored." However, The Observer page was not stored. Presumably, pushing "store" should store the page that is open, not the first page in a series.

Daly

[kevina]

Your first mentioned use of the "store" button in Ultra Recall is correct, to toggle whether the current Info Item stores or only links to the actual document (or web page). This button will never create a new Info Item.

The Document (or web page) that will be "stored" is based on the current Url attribute value (in the Item Attributes Pane), which is always associated with the currently selected Info Item (in a Selection Pane, such as the Data Explorer Pane).

When you use the Google Search Info Item to do a search, the Item Details Pane is now functioning as a regular browser and is displaying the contents of the url in the Web Toolbar, not the selected Info Item (note that the other panes still reflect the currently selected Info Item).

Several options exist to add the displayed page as a new Info Item in Ultra Recall (when using Ultra Recall as a browser):
1) Drag & Drop or copy & paste the url from the Web Toolbar to the appropriate location in the Data Explorer Pane, Search Pane or Child Items Pane.
Note that some web sites do not return a different url when you navigate to different pages, in this case Ultra Recall will not save the current page using this technique. This will also occur when dragging the same url from an external browser.

2) Copy all or some of the actual web page contents and paste that into Ultra Recall. This will work regardless of what the url is and also works if the page is secure or password protected.
The entire page can be copied with Edit | Select All then Edit | Copy (or Ctrl+A then Ctrl+C).
Note: You can also drag and drop some all of the content of a web page the same way.

3) If you installed the Explorer Menu content menu shortcuts, then you could also right-click the page being displayed (in the Item Details Pane), then click either Send to Ultra Recall (copy) or Send to Ultra Recall (link).
Note: A new Info Item will be created either as child of the currently bolded Info Item or the Imported Items Info Item, depending on the current option setting @ [i]Tools | Options | Import.

What is the very long url that is causing the "url not found" message?

We have never seen (or had any reports of) the Forward/Back buttons not functioning. Can you provide more detail about this?

[Daly de Gagne]

Kevin, thanks for the prompt reply.

I am not sure that I follow all you are saying in the first couple of paragraphs.

However, drag 'n dropping the url from the web tool bar wasn't working for me, as my ifrst post indicates.

As for the context menu options for linking or storing, they were available when I opened the link I have stored in UR, but when I clicked on a link in the opened page to go to a new page, the options didn't show up in the context menu of the new page.

Re the loss of the forward and back functions, I cannot say much more than I already have. I hadn't noticed that as a problem before and am wondering two things: a) is it a quirk in the latest release or (b) is there a problem with my copy of the UR application in which case I should download the program again?

Daly

[kevina]

I'll try to better explain myself.

The Store Contents button doesn't store the contents of the Item Details Pane, but rather re-retrieves the data for the document specified by the Url attribute. Perhaps this is part of the misunderstanding.

The purpose of the "Store Contents" button is to either store or not store the contents of the document (or web page) specified by the Url attribute value of an existing Info Item (based on the Document template or derived from the Document template). When a Document Info Item is "storing contents" the actual document (or web page for web content) is saved in the Info Database. If not "storing contents" then the document is only referenced (linked) but the document data is not contained in the Info Database.

If the Web Toolbar contains a url, then the Item Details Pane in Ultra Recall is being used in browser mode, and is not displaying the linked or stored contents of the current Info Item. All other panes, and the Store Contents button are still "slaved" to the currently selected Info Item, not the current contents of the Item Details Pane (which is in "browser" mode).

Is dragging and dropping the url from the Web Toolbar to the Data Explorer failing for you for all urls or only one or a few? If not all the time, I would be interested in seeing a failing url, so we can test it.

There are no known issues related to the Forward/Back buttons or functionality since version 1.0 (there were no related changes in 1.3a). When I asked for more information, I was looking for stuff like:
- Are the buttons disabled, or do they simply not respond to clicking?
- If not disabled, do you get a valid list of entries when you drop the list down for each button?
- When do they work/not work (is this related to using UR as a browser or also for internal UR navigation)?

Not sure why the IE context menu would not be displayed, this is handled by IE directly (once they are added during UR installation). What is displayed in the Web Toolbar and the Url attribute (in the Item Attributes Pane) when they are missing?

[Daly de Gagne]

Kevin, thanks again for your help.

First of all, the good news! The problems which I wrote to you about yesterday with re to the forward and back, and the drag and drop import, not working are resolved.

Apparently it was not enough for me to close and reopen UR. I realized this when I started my computer again this morning. Everything worked OK.

Re the store function on the context menu. It is there when I open a web site referenced in UR. If I use a link on that site to move to a new site, I do not get the store option on the web site.

I'm not at my home machine so I can't answer the questions you asked about what is displayed, but will do so later when I am back.

Thanks again.

Daly

[Daly de Gagne]

Kevin, I'm running into some buggy behaviour with the browser. I open up Google, either from the Search pane, or the favourites menu, or by typing in the url.

I put a name in the search box, "running."

Google gives me a listing of the results.

I select Runner"s World, and that page opens.

I use the reverse arrow to go back to Google.

BUT...when I use the forward arrow, and the little balloon comes on and says "forward to Runner's World," I use the forward button, and instead of Runner's World, I get the "Page cannot be displayed" page.

I do not know when this will occur, but can say it occurs much, much more often with UR's built-in browser than it does with IE stand alone or Firefox. It's a PITA.

So is the fact that if I open Google from the Search pane, put in a search term, and then select a page from the resulting list, if I use the store button, UR saves Google, not the page that is currently displayed. To avoid this situation, I just put the url in manually.

Daly

[Daly de Gagne]

[Kevin, more on the browser questions...

First of all, I think it is problematic if the store button on the browser bar doesn't store the web item that is displayed in the item pane. It is counter intuitive.

If there is a good reason for keeping it as it is, it would be wonderful to have another button that, with one click, would store the item that is displayed. That would mean creating a new info item, which could be put under imported items.

Re the forward and back arrows: I continually am running into the problem of "the page cannot be displayed" page appearing. I cannot imagine a reason why I should not be able to move forward and back to web pages that have already been displayed.

I have never encountered this problem so acutely in any other program using IE as its browser. Is there an issue perhaps caused by the options to link and to store? In other words, somem sort of conflict?

Fortunantely, the process of importing items, then saving them, with Firefox, works well.

However, since I am going to probably end up with hunreds of different urls in UR, either linked or stored, it would be more convenient long term to be able to use UR's browser.

Daly

[Daly de Gagne]

I have just now selected Google from the search pane, and on two occasions, searching for Slate and for Running Times, got the "page cannot be displayed" page.

Daly

[Daly de Gagne]

Kevin, in one of your earlier posts, you asked me what one of the over-long urls would be that keep me importing an item from the UR browser.

Here's one, associated with Running Times:
http://view.atdmt.com/RSC/iview/rnnnsnwb0040000021rsc/direct/01?click=


As you can see, it is rather long.

I get a message from UR saying it cannot import the item because of the url's length.

I still do not get the context menu you spoke of as being in IE. I get it in IE itself, but not in UR's embedded IE browser.

Daly

[srdiamond]

I got confused about "Store Contents," but I think the source of the confusion is more superficial. The documentation states: "The Stored Contents button , placed by default in the Item Toolbar, will be depressed when a document Info Item has been stored." Which is wrong; at least on my set up, the button is NOT depressed when contents are STORED. It is depressed, rather, when the InfoItem is LINKED.

Also, while the button's label is "Store Contents," the documentation says "Stored Contents." The verb form "Store Contents" does lead the user to think that the button creates the stored InfoItem. The adjectival "Stored" is less misleading.

Another factor that generates confusion is that the other buttons perform an action rather than toggling a state. So it's probably misleading to lay this button out parallel to the action buttons. It should probably be set off in some way to make it seem like a toggle and to distinguish its nature from that of the other buttons. I'm not graphical enough to offer any suggestion on how to do that.

Stephen R. Diamond

[Daly de Gagne]

Stephen, I agree with you. I find the use of the store or stored button countner intuitive. Ariadne had a rather simple way of saving of web pages. Push the button, indicate in the dialogue that popped up whether you wanted the web page to go to the equivalent of imported items, or to a place in the tree you selected. No ambiguity about what was meant.

Daly

[Daly de Gagne]

Some good news: I discovered the problem with getting "page cannot be displayed" pages had to do with a Norton security setting that was probably changed inadvertantly in the last week. That has been corrected, and now pages come in from the web really well.

Daly

[srdiamond]

Originally posted by Daly de Gagne
Stephen, I agree with you. I find the use of the store or stored button countner intuitive. Ariadne had a rather simple way of saving of web pages. Push the button, indicate in the dialogue that popped up whether you wanted the web page to go to the equivalent of imported items, or to a place in the tree you selected. No ambiguity about what was meant.

Daly

I think one of UR's ways of saving web pages is simpler and as unambiguous as Ariadne's. You simply right click on the web page and select one of the two "Send to" alternatives.

For some reason though it isn't working on my system - the commands don't appear on the right-click menu in UR. It works in other IE-based browsers, but not in UR itself.

Stephen Diamond

[srdiamond]

One more thing about "Store Contents," to be sure we're clear. Your mention of the button is the first occasion on which I have even noticed its presence. My point being that it isn't a functionality one will ordinarily make much use of. It toggles the state of documents that are stored or linked from one of these states to the other. This is a real 'bells and whistles' feature. It also provides an indicator of the state, but that's redundant with information found elsewhere on the face of the display.

[Daly de Gagne]

Originally posted by srdiamond
I think one of UR's ways of saving web pages is simpler and as unambiguous as Ariadne's. You simply right click on the web page and select one of the two "Send to" alternatives.

For some reason though it isn't working on my system - the commands don't appear on the right-click menu in UR. It works in other IE-based browsers, but not in UR itself.

Stephen Diamond

Stephen, you are right, that two send to alternatives even simpler than Ariadne's.

However, as I wrote in an earlier post, I am also not able to make the right click menu appear in UR -- although it does appear in other IE browsers. I think this is a definite bug.

If it isn't a bug, it sure doesn't make any sense.

Daly

[srdiamond]

If you're getting it too, it must be a bug. Kevin did say this was possible in the UR browser. Since it hasn't been reported, I would guess it's a new bug.

[kinook]

The store contents button is specific to the current UR item. If you navigate within the internal browser to another web page, that page is not yet an item in UR, and the store button still applies to the last UR item you were at. The button allows you to toggle the stored state of that item.

The internal browser context menu does not currently contain 'send to UR' items (the information in a prior post is incorrect), these are added only to external IE browser windows. If you are able to import a page from Firefox by dragging its URL, then the same operation of dragging or copy/pasting the URL from UR's address bar should also work. Perhaps this not working was related to the Norton setting you mentioned. I tried it with the long URL you mentioned above (and some of that page's links) and it worked ok.

Other ways to import a page from the internal browser:
Select all (Ctrl+A) or part of a web page (or a link on the page) in the internal browser and drag or copy/paste that into the UR data explorer pane (or use UR's global import shortcut key [Tools | Options | Import | Import clipboard contents hotkey] after copying). We'll also consider providing additional ways to import the page from UR's internal browser view.